In bulletproof, inescapable logic:
1) If God is love, then all of God’s acts are loving.
2) God is love.
3) Therefore, all of God’s acts are loving.
4) If all of God’s acts are loving, then when God acts toward anyone, He acts in love.
5) If everything God does is loving, then there are no acts He performs which are not loving.
6) If there are no acts God performs which are not loving, then God never acts unloving. To anyone.
Deny 1, and 2 becomes meaningless. Deny 2, and you deny scripture. 3 cannot be denied without denying either 1 or 2. 4 is logically and obviously true, as are 5 and 6. If the argument is true, it leads infallibly to
7) All of God’s acts are loving, towards everyone. Always.
(I could argue for the “always,” but it seems so transparently true from the rest of the argument that it’s not worth the bother).
About David M Schell
I am a doubter and a believer. I have a Master's in Divinity from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, but because faith grows and changes, I don't necessarily stand by everything I've ever written, so if you see something troubling further back, please ask! Read More.
Logical fallacy detected. What about the self case? Did God act in love toward Himself when he died on the cross for our sins? Either 6 needs to be reworked or selfless love isn’t just a made up human phrase 😉
I think it could be argued that God indeed acted lovingly toward Himself. If love acts in a way that is best for the other party, and God “knew” (temporally speaking) that it was best for Him to get us back and thus went to ridiculous lengths to do so. it seems obvious to me that God was indeed acting in a loving way on the cross, even towards Himself.
However, I see your point. Self-sacrificial love seems lacking, but I was intending “self-sacrificial” when I said love. What say ye?
Hmmm…interesting rebuttal. So God was acting completely selfishly when He brought us back into the fold. I can honestly say I’ve never thought of it that way. If I was to cling to my argument, I could say it would have been far easier (and less painful) for God to simply call “do over” and re-establish the Garden. And that would of course open the bag of worms that we have value in God’s eyes and He saw that redeeming us at cost to Himself was good. I think I’m gonna concede this round to you! 😛
next time gadget….mwahahaha
Thank you, sir! 🙂
If I may comment (a week late, just now reading this lol), you forgot to add God’s justice into the equation. Righteousness and justice are the foundation of God’s throne (Psalm 89:14)
God is love, and those who reject God reject his love. I still agree with point # 1, and I would say that it is the best demonstration of God’s love that gives us a chance to spend eternity with him in a perfect world without defect, without sin. Heaven is only possible without sin. But that also means that all those who have not let God take their sins away cannot be with him in heaven. So it is not God’s nature that sends people to hell, but their own selves for hanging onto their sin. That is the nature of free will. Don’t get me wrong, God is grieved to see people go to hell as a result of their sins, but he will not infringe upon our free will. If God overrode our free will, then what would the sense of justice be? And we know that God is just. All of God’s acts are loving, but if people reject God (or in other words hold onto sin which is rejecting God’s ways) then they also reject his love. So the benefits of God’s love are not automatically given to everyone.
lol. This had better be John Cross. 🙂
I didn’t forget to add God’s justice into the equation. It’s not something that “balances out,” as if there was this tension in God where He partly wants to be merciful to us and partly is required by His justice to send us all to hell. There is no conflict between God’s justice and mercy. Justice is *about* mercy. Justice comes through mercy and always has. (See the section on justice and mercy here: http://therebelgod.com/cross1.html )
God saving people isn’t about free will, either. Free will is an explanation they came up with to explain why all don’t choose Christ in this lifetime and to allow us to accept the horrible idea that there are some people that God won’t act out of love toward. Ree will tell you that love is doing what’s best for the other person, even if it’s inconvenient for you. I can think of no possible scenario where sending someone to hell for all eternity would be in their best interest.
And I have a hard time imagining that “perfect justice” would punish someone for a sin that (in the common view) Jesus has already been punished for, or that Jesus has already conquered or taken away. And if Christ has already taken our sin, how shall God the Father punish anyone for it? Plus, it’s infinite punishment for finite sin. How is that justice? A travesty is what it is… and God’s justice is higher than our justice. Our justice puts people in jail for a long time. God’s justice sets captives free.
I look forward to continuing this conversation with you ridiculously soon, my friend!!! 😀
Yep, this is John Cross :D. My main point is that it is possible to reject God, and if God is love then rejecting God means rejecting his love. The Bible is filled with examples of rejecting God. Just to quote one verse, 1 Thes 4:7-8 says, “For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.”
And yet God does not reject anyone. 🙂